McCain on The View: Roe a very bad decision

I have to give it to Sarah Palin. Unlike the McCains, Palin is consistent in her beliefs - if you believe a single-cell diploid organism is an independent human being and that interfering with it's chance at being born is murder (even if it has a significant deformity) than you really do have to be against abortion in the case of rape or incest.

I think if all anti-choicers were really consistent with their beliefs (which would make them against many artificial reproductive techniques due to all the innocent babies that are killed) they'd find less support for their political candidates. Of course, for most of the religious right, the battle isn't about saving babies, the battle is about gaining/maintaining power and using religion as a weapon to control others.

I am disappointed in all of you!! Most of you don't realize that if your parents had been given a choice or if it had not been the right time for them having a child and they had aborted you, you would not be here! Please watch the video on you tube on how an abortion kills a baby especially partial birth abortion and you will be sick like I was. Apparently none of you are Christians because you would not be pro-choice. You just vote the ignorant party-line!! Life is a gift!!! Those of us who were Pro-Choice at one time and fail as Christians have to learn how we are leading people astray. Just like the Christian woman who stands for Life now and was the Woman in Roe vs. Wade. She regrets what she did and speaks all over the country for life and tries to prevent others from making the same mistake she made. Don't be closed minded and vote the party line!! Did you also know that Barack did not vote pro-choice, he voted that he was present? He is also voting to give 5 million illegal immigrant SS benefits and medical, do you think Social security benefits will be around for us, I have paid into it for the last 26 years? Just like 5 million people who had not paid taxes in the last 5 years tried to collect the $700 tax rebate this year!!! You need to step up and learn what you are standing for!

Wow.

I can't make heads or tails of what you just said, but you should go on SNL, stand-up comedy, or theatre. With a performance or rant like that, you'll be famous.

"I believe Roe v. Wade was a very bad decision". Those are John McCain's words. Many millions of people, including some of our sharpest legal minds, agree with him. It is not the view of a fringe group of nuts, but a view embraced by more and more people as they study Roe and study abortion in the light of modern medical technology. You would do well to treat it seriously and present well thought out arguments against it rather than simply dismiss it as unworthy of intelligent minds. If McCain is "out of touch" with pro-abortion thinking, he is very definitely "in touch" with pro-life thinking,and that may prove more beneficial to his political aspirations, at least in the long run.

Also, the newly conceived creature in the womb that one poster refers to as "a single-cell diploid organism" is referred to in obstetrical textbooks, approved for training obstetricians, as a new human being. Those textbooks state bluntly that at the moment when sperm and egg meet a new human life begins. If that is true - and how can it not be? - then, that lie is protected by our United States Constitution, whether it consists of one cell or one billion. Given that, I trust you can see why so many people think Roe is not just a bad decision, but one that MUST be overturned, if our American Experiment is to succeed. To ignore the reality of life in the womb is to be "out of touch" with modern technology.

Okay, Joanne. Let's say you get your way on everything. Let's say Roe VS Wade is overturned. Let's say your pro-life views are made into constitutional law. Let's say that when a sperm and egg meet, the mother must have the baby or face charges for breaking the law. Do you think this is going to stop abortions? No. You're just going to put a lot of womens' lives in danger because they do not have access to a safe form of abortion.

And besides, do you think every woman that gets pregnant in the United States is ready to have a baby? Do you think the woman is ready to support a family? Do they all have jobs and stable lives? Will they be able to raise a baby properly? Will the baby have access to food, clothing, shelter, education and medical attention? (Not under McLame and Failin's watch, I know that.) Will the baby have a father? Will he be a good father?

And think about how drastically our population would grow without this form of birth control. We consume resources more than any other country. Countries all over the world are experiencing water shortages. We need to address this problem of overpopulation in the future.

You people call yourself pro-life, but I know you guys don't care about these kinds of challenges. All you care about is forcing everyone else to accept your moralistic opinions. That is why we fight to protect Roe VS Wade.

ronpaulisoverrated: Wow I'd have to write a book to answer that deluge of questions fully!! So I'll have to settle for brief, oversimplified answers.

Would reversing Roe stop abortions? Murder laws don't stop murders, but they do greatly reduce the murder rate. Same with abortion laws. Would reversing Roe put women,s lives in danger from illegal abortions? No,the abortion mortality rate (for mothers) dropped to almost what it now is BEFORE abortion was legalized, thanks to advances in medical technology. Legalization did NOT make abortion any safer. That is beyond dispute. In fact abortion was legalized partly because it was already considered a safe procedure. Besides, are women so incapable of handling a personal crisis that they would, by the thousand, flock to life-threatening abortion hacks to avoid having an unwanted baby? Nonsense. Women are capable or better, are we not? We women know that the creature in our wombs is a human being, and killing it is contrary to our nature. No amount of conditioning can change that. We are conditioned to place immense value on the life we are entrusted with, and that will never change. Life is extremely precious.

Your second paragraph:
No, not every woman who becomes pregnant can support a baby, and the sad consequences you cite in that paragraph follow from that unreadiness. But look; Not everyone who drives drunk and kills an innocent motorist is ready to go to jail. Not everyone who gets caught using drugs on the job is willing to lose his/her income when they get caught and fired. The motto: Don't do the things that get you in a jam like that. In this case, don't do the things that will get you pregnant until you are in a position to raise a child that might result. That is simply responsible behavior which every citizen of this country is expected to practice. Becoming pregnant is a major undertaking. Don't do it till you are ready.

Your third paragraph:
Far from growing, population is declining in Europe and the Good old USA to the point where it is already precipating a crisis (read up on it) which will become more acute during this century. Overpopulation is a hoary old myth that has long been debunked. I'm surprised you still subscribe to it. Granted, in the interest of necessary brevity (I can't write a book overnight!!) I'm oversimplifying. The world has too many people in a few places, too few in others, like the USA and Western Europe. But abortion is by no means the answer anywhere.

Last paragraph: Wrong; the concern I (and the pro lifers I work with) have is that abortion and its satellite evils threaten our country, and ultimately the survival of the world. The taking of human life, in or out of the womb, is an inexpressibly serious matter, that affects the future of our country and our civilization. With all due respect,we cannot allow you or any cadre of woolly headed revolutionaries to abort our society out of existence. We have no interest in forcing everyone to accept "narrow moralistic opinions". We have a passionate and uncompromising interest in protecting America and preserving our Judeo - Christian civilization. That calls for respect for life, which, in turn, calls for sexual restraint, and procreative responsibility. If you, ronpaulisoverrated, are a responsible citizen, you should be able to accept that.

Ooooh, you were ready for my questions. The only complaint I have is with your last paragraph.

"Abortion and its satellite evils threaten our country, and ultimately the survival of the world."? You guys say abortion stops a beating heart; I say WAR STOPS THOUSANDS OF BEATING HEARTS. War tears countries to pieces and ruins lives. War contains far more satellite evils than you could argue that abortion carries. Are you guys complaining about its atrocities? No. Get your priorities straight. Abortion can't possibly be the ultimate evil or the ultimate killer.

"Woolly headed revolutionaries to abort our society out of existence."? Are you calling me a sheep? And how does keeping abortion legal abort our society out of existence? That is so wierd it's funny. "The survival of our civilization"! Yes, in this country of 300 million people and growing, abortion threatens to ABORT OUR SOCIETY OUT OF EXISTENCE! That's comedy gold.

"protecting America" You're not. Abortion isn't threatening our society in any form. "preserving our Judeo - Christian civilization." You know what? That is an insult. Not only did our founding fathers put a separation of church and state, but you also just stepped on the growing number of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc. in this country.

"sexual restraint, and procreative responsibility." No! Even you acknowledged that overturning Roe VS Wade won't stop people from having abortions. It's their lives. They don't appreciate you forcing them to live a certain way. They can do with their bodies whatever they want. It's not your business. You and and the people who agree with you can preach to the choir and accept the call for "respect for life", whatever that means. But like I said, don't force people who don't agree with you to accept your lifestyle. That's tyrannical, and you're just making yourself look like a bully and a moralistic jerk. Stop it.

War is destructive and should be avoided. I don't think it is ever necessary in our modern age. However it does not have the destructive potential that abortion has. It kills only a fraction of the numbers killed in abortion. Besides abortion carries the implication that one may kill to satisfy one's own needs without let or hindrance from the state or any source. That flies in the face of our constitution. Once the Constitution is breached in one area it can be breached in another and another, until it is rendered meaningless as a charter for society. Regarding population, read up on your demographics. Most western countries are under replacement level. America is barely at it. We are suffering the effects of that right now with a disproportionate number of elderly people in our society, and that will get worse. The black birthrate in the U.S. is also well below replacement level, because the abortion rate among blacks is almost 3 times as high as among whites. Again, this is well established, so please don't regard it as something I made up.

Regarding doing "with their bodies what they want", we cannot do with someone else's body what we want. Abortion involves killing someone else's body. (Besides we really can't do with our own bodies anything we want either. We can't self-mutilate etc). Bully? Protecting innocent human life is not bullying, anymore than the abolitionists were bullying the slave owners when they condemned slavery and tried to rescue the slaves.

Grrrr. I like your first paragraph, but the second...

"we cannot do with someone else's body what we want" - That's exactly what you're trying to do. You're forcing a woman to give birth against her will. Tell me that's not doing what you want with her body. I DARE you to tell me that.

"We can't self-mutilate" Self-mutilate? Give me a break. You're not going to walk out of an abortion clinic bleeding. Abortion is a surgery. Surgeries are necessary to health care. Is getting any kind surgery self-mutilation? Is having your appendix removed self-mutilation? Is getting teeth removed self-mutilation?

And finally, "protecting innocent human life". For the last time, you people are doing NOTHING of the sort. This agenda of yours doesn't protect diddly-squat. As I've said before, if a woman wants an abortion, it's because SHE'S NOT READY TO HAVE A BABY. She is doing both herself and the baby a favor because she will not be able to raise the baby properly, and her life will be more miserable as a result.

I'm not even going to talk about abortion in the case where the woman has been raped, which is something Sarah Failin is against.

Well, despite the Grrr, I'm delighted we can agree on the first paragraph, or that you at least like it.

I perceive from your rather strong language, and uppercase lettering, that this is more than a theoretical question for you. In fact I get the impression it is quite personal. If that is so, please accept my sincere apology. I thought I was involved in a sort of debating contest, in which the issue being debated was academic to you. I feel like I'm condemning the war to someone who, I suddenly discover, lost a brother, or a husband or a son to it.
Uh, Uh, emergency, I must leave. Please let me know you accept my apology. by for now.