Liberty Lowdown: Obama and McCain head to head

Senator Clinton is also different than McCain on this issue

You are just pretending as though Obama has the nomination. HE DOES NOT! It is still a race!

He will win the nomination, with or without Clinton on the ticket. I hope he can count on your support in the Fall.

The more McCain runs to the right, the more I fear what his presidency will mean for the rest of us. ;-( It will be the undoing of his campaign, to be sure.

Hillary also defends Pro Choice.

NO

You know what disgusts me about this post? First, we don't have a Democrat nominee yet. Second, you have completely IGNORED all the outrage from Clinton supporters. Don't think this is going to sway us over to Obama. You lost your credibility with your endorsement. And we're going to fight for Hillary to win the nomination until the bitter end.

You know what disgusts me about this post? First, we don't have a Democrat nominee yet. Second, you have completely IGNORED all the outrage from Clinton supporters. Don't think this is going to sway us over to Obama. You lost your credibility with your endorsement. And we're going to fight for Hillary to win the nomination until the bitter end.

I'm sure there is more to the story than meets the eye with this endorsement.

Why Ms. Keenan??

In my opinion,you need to be replaced. I will not be supporting NARAL with my hard earned money as long as you are involved.

I'm curious how anyone thinks Hillary has a chance now? She can't win the popular or pledged delegate race at this point. The only way to win is to flip super delegates. Is that how we want to pick the nominee?

The patriarchy wants Hillary Clinton to be a nice girl and step aside so the boys can have their way. It is not going to happen. Neither she nor Senator Obama have enough delegates to win the nomination and won't no matter how these last primaries play out. One thing to remember - Senator Clinton has 300 electoral votes based on the states she has won in the Democratic primaries. Senator Obama has 217. It takes 270 electoral votes to wim the presidency. Hmmm. Looks like Senator Clinton is more able to do that since electoral votes is what counts in November not the delegates. Senator Obama has won and collected his delegates from small primaries and caucuses. He can't win most of the big primaries. Unfortunately, caucuses give out more delegates than primaries. For instance, Senator Obama won Idaho by 13,000 votes and being a caucus state he got 13 delegates. Idaho is too Red for the Democratic to win in November so this win really doesn't matter. Senator Clinton won PA by 200,000 votes and got 10 delegates. PA is a battleground state with lots of electoral votes and the Democrats need to win this state in November. Who has a better chance at this win for the Democrats? Obama's strategy has been to win and collect delegates in this way from many states that he will not win if he is the nominee in November. It does not look good for the Democrats if Senator Obama is the nominee and he shouldn't be.

Wow, you people really are disgusting. Do you realize how many people are not supporting obama because he is trying to disenfranchise over a million women by not agreeing to count their votes in FL and MI? And he's going to lose Fl because of it. How well is that going to further your movement. Nancy K. is as much a fraud as Barack Obama.

NARAL is no longer an organization that stands up for women.

Ms. Keenan, you have destroyed the credibility of NARAL by becoming a tool for the Obama campaign and joining the unprecedented sexist attack to push Hillary out of the contest.

We will not listen to you anymore.

I will never donate another dime to NARAL.

NO.

and

NO.

You are not women. You are not men who have taken the time to understand sexism. You are men who have joined the campaign to push Hillary out of the contest, suggest women shut up and give up.

Your opinions DO NOT COUNT.

We do not care what you say.

yes, one is pro-choice, one is pro-life, we get it. yes, obama is sooooo deep. *fawn*.

get a grip "sweeties", obama doesn't give a s--t about anyone but himself.

You might want to check out Hillary Clinton's website, it has women's issues front and center in her list of issues. Obama? nope.

She has a separate section for family planning front and center. Obama? nope.

She raised money and marched for naral. She has spoken to countless number of women about womens rights and issues. She has gone to countless events for women's organizations.

Her healthcare plan covers everyone. Obama's? not so much.

HRC worked on making sure illegal immigrants had increased access to healthcare when she was first lady of arkansas. Obama? No word on women's issues from him at the time.

HRC's internships as a law student were focused around foster children and foster families. Obama was snorting cocaine in those days. He talks about it in is super awesome book that he got an mtv award for. cool!!

On HRC's website she talks about women making 77cents on the dollar to men. Obama? *crickets*

Hillary worked for years to make sure Plan B was available to women over the counter. Obama? *crickets*

Do you guys shop at American Apparel on the weekends or what?

First we are told that the Republican Party is going down the toilet. Then we are told to be very afraid of a Republican president. Sorry, can't have it both ways. I'm a life long Democratic male voting for a republican for the first time in my 65 years because he is clearly the lesser of two evils. It is far more important to re-establish the checks and balances in our government than to install an egocentric, neo-liberal, corporatist little king no matter what color he is.

http://www.flatustheelder.com

Your Organization is beyond disgusting
for supporting Obama over Clinton
You shot yourselves in the foot

The mention of your organization, now makes me sick

What a bunch of despicable hypocrites

I would NEVER support an organization that would, when given the opportunity, chose a male candidate over a female. Especially when that male is significantly less qualified. I always thought that men were running the pro-life organizations and women were running the pro-choice, either I was wrong or the women behind NARAL have sold out. You had a chance to help make history by supporting a strong female candidate, and you chose to go the patriarchal route. From a PR standpoint you have shot yourselves in the foot. Any woman that is activist enough to donate to your orgnization is activist enough to understand the political and social implications of your choice and will undeniably disassociate themselves from your organization.

NARAL's only power comes from us. Keenan and her Board only have power if we give it to them.

If you are as angry as I am...over their endorsement of Obama...then write your state and federal representatives and senators. Tell them you are Pro-Choice...Support Senator Clinton...and NARAL does not speak for you.

Isn't it ironic that all the pro Keenen comments on this blog are from men? hmmmm...Nancy Keenen? Is that a man's name?

It was a tone-deaf statement when NARAL endorsed Obama.
Quite a slap in the face for women worldwide when you chose to take sides prior to the primaries being complete & ALL the VOTERS have their votes counted!
Instead of waiting to endorse the nominee of the democrat party, you betrayed many of us supporting Hillary!
Incredible, with this sort of 'support' that NARAL exhibits, who NEEDS YOUR help???

Here is the list of superdelegates.
lobbysuperdelegates.com
Also We are marching in DC on May 31st because Donna Brazile, Howard Dean and Barack Obama have ensured that 2.3million people's votes do not count. That's over 1 million women who's votes will not count so that they can put Obama into office.

Riverdaughter's blog has the info, google search for it.

Operation turn down is in effect. many of us who don't want this 1/2 term senator in office will not vote for him. And we don't have to fall in line with the dem party ticket just because organizations like this think he's there for women. Ask his backer Rep. Cohen why he likened Senator Hillary Clinton to Glenn Close from fatal attraction and said she should have stayed dead in the bathtub.

And when you say you won't support Barack "sweetie" Obama, watch his supporters hold Roe V. Wade over your head, to make you fall in line. Tell them to get stuffed., women fought for the right to vote and barack obama won't agree to let them count. Fight back. Naral sold you out.

Jess,

Thanks for super delegates list ABOVE and info about the march on May 31st in DC - above! GREAT idea. Where do we get details on the march?

Who is organizing the march?

GREAT INFO, Jess!

Jennifer

Florida Demands Representation is putting it together. I put a link to some info on the link of my name. there is a DNC rules and regulation committee meeting on May 31st. Donna "wish she could get some obama booty" Brazile will probably be there. post, you can find my blog will have some info soon. and if you click on "jess" in my original post my blog will have some more info soon.

i WILL NEVER SUPPORT THIS ORGANIZATION AGAIN.

YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME-----HILLARY DOES!

REBECCA

Jess,

I am interested in the March in DC and taking my mother in her 70's, a couple of aunts in their 70's, and my daughters that are in their 20's that we all support Hillary and have been outraged by this endorsement and the sexism be used in an attempt to have the "boys' club" decide once again who our President is.

I am spreading the word to my thousands of female clients, through blogs in cluding this one, and wherever else may be beneficial.

I do want to say though - that I do not believe that your latest comment about Donna B. is why Donna B. is supporting Obama and would like to keep the comments more civil.

You have me and our team 100% but, let's please keep it to the tone of the seriousness that this is about - which is that our RIGHTS as women are being jeopardized (not just choice) and, are political power is being taken for granted.

Thank you, Jess for the info.

Linda

I meant to type above - IS NOT the reason I believe Donna B. is supporting Obama.

Linda

I meant to type above - IS NOT the reason I believe Donna B. is supporting Obama.

Linda

I think I smell the Republican Troll Brigade, Operation Chaos - NARAL patrol. It's hard to believe some of the nonsensical vitriol coming from supposed progressive NARAL supporters.

I say again I can understand some disappointment, but the claims of plans to undermine Obama must be coming from the Right-Wing. Granted there might be a high percentage of NARAL supporters who are Bush-McCainiacs but it is surprising.

Alright then. The Democratic nomination race is not over yet. West Virginia and today's Kentucky loss proves Obama can't easily win Poor White Blue Collar voters. I will concede these points.

I will not conceded the Popular Vote as that is just not factual. Check Real Clear Politics or MSNBC - Chuck Todd. Michigan and Florida are asterisked as they voted but the votes don't count. Should they, maybe yes, but the rules are the Rules. Sen. Clinton's own campaign staff Terry McCaullif(sp) and Harold Ickes approved of the rules to suspend Mich. and Florida for jumping their vote dates out of order. I bet Hillary wouldn't be allowing Obama count those votes if the situation was reversed.

The math is the math. Sen. Clinton and her staff strategized to forget the caucus states, kind of like Rudy Gulliani did with his Florida only plan. Well those states count.

Take a few more weeks to June 3rd to wrap your heads around the fact that Sen. Clinton did not win the nomination despite here heroic and valiant efforts. She is a Champion for Womens causes, and will be a powerful force in the Senate. Under Hillary's mentor-ship there will be a women President, hopefully as soon as 2016 after Sen. Obama's second term. At least she will inherit a country in better shape.

The Fighting Dems

Obama 08

I'll try to keep it civil. i agree this is not why she wants obama to be the nominee. But she should lose her place on the committee for being so blatently obvious for Obama while ensuring the disefranchisment millions of people. She is a disgrace to women and democracy.

oh, and linda, thanks for the perspective. :).

B Meridith,

Thank you for being the voice of reason. I swear, it sounds like a lot of people hear would cut off their nose to spite their face. What will these people do when Hillary supports Obama and starts campaigning on his behalf? If she doesn't end up on the ticket, that is exactly what is going to happen. Will they still refuse to support him? If so, then they deserve to have McCain as their President. I hope they come to their senses before November.

What a shame that you did not go for Hillary Clinton. I will not support obama!!!!!!!! you should re look at things!!!!!

NARAL has lost much of my passion. I feel strongly about the right to choose, but think NARAL needs new leadership.

QUIT COUNTING HILLARY CLINTON OUT!!!!

IT IS NOT A MCCAIN-OBAMA RACE YET.

IT'S HILLARY V. OBAMA RIGHT NOW. HE HASN'T WON YET PEOPLE.

ITS DISGUSTING AND SAD THAT YOU DID NOT ENDORSE THE RIGHT CANIDATE - A CANDIDATE WHO HAS BEEN WORKING SO HARD AND SO LONG FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

SHAME ON YOU! DISGUSTING NARAL! WILL NEVER GIVE MONEY AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

Jess - thanks for being such a big person! Through love for our cause we will do this. That is not to be mistaken by being weak by anyone on this blog that is putting us down for standing strong.

For all you people who think we Democrats will come together after the primaries and support Obama, bett think again. I will do everything in my power to defeat him in the fall and elect McCain. Your organization can ride the slede to the bottom along with him. Along with millions of others, he will never get my vote. NEVER

Sisters!

Our comments are making an impact as we were on CNN today as far as this blog.

WE ARE MAKING our voices heard. We are strong, we are experienced, and we do this with love for our fellow human being and that is what makes this so important.

Hillary in the White House would spread help and love around the WORLD and give us a platform that we have never had before!

I personally want to thank everyone for all the work through the decades and standing up ONCE AGAIN - to go another round!

Today, Governor McCaskill of MO said on the piece on CNN about the comments from us on this blog "we would come around". SHE IS WRONG and her and KS Governor and others are going to regret abandoning a fellow sister for the highest office in the land! We will take care of Hillary now - as she has taken care of us and our causes for soooooo many years - and, then I suggest we turn our efforts toward defeating every woman that fought against Hillary (women) in this race.

Just another sister doing her part to keep this alive and show my mutual support!

As a 58 years old woman and a lifelong dem....I am now a reg. Independent (because the DNC and Obama campaign have stuck it to Sen. Clinton, especially FL & MI B S)...but I think we can now classify NARAL in the same category as a bunch of lemmings. I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR THIS MAN, of little experience, thin resume' and little to no accomplishments...oh excuse me, he was a community organize...way to go!

Anna, how can you write "I suggest we turn our efforts toward defeating every woman that fought against Hillary (women) in this race." How is it that you can think this this is acceptable? How will this kind of thinking and action further the feminist movement?

Hillary is an accomplished woman who has fought for many years for women, but she is far from the only woman who has done so. How can you justify trying to villify other women in this manner? We have got to gain some perspective or the feminist movement will be margainalized and sunk by this kind of backwards thinking.

My apologies to Anna, I have realized that I was directing the post I just made towards the wrong person--I meant to reply to "our comments made the news." That is what I get for trying to do more than one thing at once.

Heather

hillary is not out of the race dispite what the national naral says. GO HILLARY!

Oh no. You don't get to distract us from your treachery by waving McLame around.

You chose the man over the woman.

When you need money, from now on go to the man.

My money goes to the woman. My vote goes to the woman.

Hillary Forever! NARAL Never!

You traitors - you make me sick. Obama didn't even VOTE yes or no - just present on this issue. HE HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING FOR YOU NARAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are all a bunch of frauds. Backstabbing traitors.

You PIGS keep trying to push HILLARY out of the race - women's right MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Helen, your comments are outrageous for so many reasons. To issue a blanket statement than any woman who supports Obama must think of herself as a "ho," or think it is acceptable and good for women to be viewed that way, is closed-minded at best. As a feminist who is supporting Obama, and the mother of three children, I cringed when I read your comments because I cannot fathom thinking that my children, one day, would have this kind of rhetoric spit at them because of a stand they decided to take.

As for the second part of your comment, I can only assume that your screaming at Anna was meant for me--so go ahead and yell at me, Heather, and not at Anna.

I am a feminist, I will continue to be a feminist, I am not a "woman's enemy." The enemy is the kind of hatred that is being flung about from woman to woman, calling other women "a disgrace" because they have chosen to back a candidate whom you do not support. I suggest you reign yourself in before you add to the "blogosphere" hatred that is out there. If you are really a feminist we are not enemies, no matter what you think.

I have children whose future I hold more dear than anything, I cannot afford to give in to name calling and generalizations that only add to the ugly things in this world.

Damn...Hillary supporters are blinded by hate.

I am a 40 year old woman and I am embarrassed by HRC and her supporters. There are much bigger issues at stake than "It's a womans turn." This is a fair race. Obama is winning and it is highly unlikely that it will change...even if it goes to the Convention.

Obama and Clinton are so close on the issues that I cannot fathom how any Clinton supporter would vote for McCain...or abstain from voting for Pro-Choice issues.

It is truly mind-boggling!!!!

I have worked with the Kennedy's, have been motivated by the Kennedy's my entire life, and have ALWAYS agreed with Ted Kennedy until he did not endorse Hillary.

I have been upset with Ted Kennedy and have just been sick that I have been upset with someone that I love so much.

Tonight my heart is heavy upon hearing of the news about Senator Kennedy today. My prayers are for him, my heart is with him, and he is family to me because no matter how upset I have been with him in the past few weeks - I have NEVER lost sight of what GREAT work he has done for so many years that we have all benefited from in one way or another. I have admired so much his family loyalty, commitment, and unconditional love.

I LOVE YOU Senator Kennedy and I pray for a miracle as I can't imagine politics or America without you!

ATTN: HILARY SUPPORTERS

You DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN. Most women are reasonable and intelligent people. They don't rant about treachery, call people names, and defend obvious dishonesty.

Your ignorance makes me sick. You care more screaming foul than working for real issues. Who cares if you don't support NARAL? Who cares if you go don't vote or vote against your own best interest? Who do you think your are to think YOU speak for any woman other than yourself? Who cares if you are a Hillary supporter? This all sounds like Republican ranting.

ACK!

Eva,

many of us do not support him because we find him to be nothing more than a pop-idol candidate and an empty suit. And no more matter how many Kerrys and the like try to cram this guy down our throats, we DO NOT WANT HIM. Many of us cannot even stand to hear him open his mouth with his mindless vague speechifying nonesense. Personally i find his whole hope/change schtick to be corny. And his "i'm not a politician" schtick is even worse. just because the "sweeties" at naral fall for it, just because people like kerry and his colleagues are excited about him, many of us are not buying it one bit. I find him downright offensive and wouldn't vote for him if he were the only one on the ballot. But i would have voted for Biden, Dodd, or Edwards. As for Obama, i've heard him stammer through every debate and i find it sad that he was in the senate 1 year before he started running. for many of us, his grasp on issues is pathetic. Not all democrats will vote for just *any* democrat. just fyi.

I am so disgusted that NARAL would jump the gun and endorse the candidate least likely to beat McCain and thereby put abortion rights in harms way.

Your site now looks like Obama's homepages and not even a NARAL site anymore.

I know 100's of women that will not vote for a straight Obama ticket under any conditions. His disrespect for women has been evident throughout this campaign.

You have aligned yourself with the forces against womens rights.

Do not ever expect to regain my respect again. I am withdrawing all support from NARAL, as I only support womens' org. that support the advancement of womens' rights.

Shame on you! You have betrayed all the women that fought long and hard before you and all the women that follow you - looking to you to be a beacon.

Michelle Brenard

jess, Michelle,

If you want to talk about someone who disrespects young women, what about McCain, eh? What about him? Watch this:

http://feministing.com/archives/009154.html

McCain doesn't care at all about young women. He skipped the vote on the Ledbetter Fairpay Act like a wimp. But Obama voted for it. Trust me, I know you'd rather vote for Clinton, but Obama is infinitely better than McCain and is well deserving of NARAL's support.

"Clinton not ready to concede
Despite being trounced in the Oregon primary, Hillary Clinton won't throw in the towel yet."

The above is what is reading in the AP headline this morning. I thought I missed something until I started researching the results.

The headline should have read - "OBAMA GETS TROUNCED BY CLINTON". Clinton beat Obama by 35 points in Kentucky whereas not all precincts are reporting yet in Oregon Obama is beating Clinton by only 14% in comparison but, yet the headline would suggest otherwise.

I get so upset with all of this. The ONLY REAL WAY that we are EVER going to be able to get ahead as women is by showing our power in THIS ELECTION! We have got to VOW to one another to not give a dime to the Democratic Party, organizations such as this one, or any Democratic Party candidate. We have to withhold our contributions and our votes.

HOW DARE the male-dominated politics of America - that gives refuge and policy to corporations for their campaign financing - hold women back anymore.

When I read the emails from women on this site who are telling us to "get over it" (I don't pay attention to the nasty comments from men - they don't even count) it makes my blood boil.

I feel like I have built a home from the ground up working 2 and 3 jobs to give my fellow females a safe-haven. And, then comes along this intrusive, never was their to help with a minute of the buidling or contribute a dime toward the completion but yet now that it is done and I have invited them into my house for their own comfort - they are putting their feet up on the furnitute, leaving their dirty plates all around the house, throwing their dirty socks on the floor, and eating me out of house and home. Then they have the audacity to NEVER leave inviting more new friends in to take advantage of what I and my fellow female activists have spent our entire lives to build. Taking advantage, taking for granted that we have given them shelter and comfort and now they want to kick us out of our own house by telling us to retire to the garage while they take over the house - but, don't go too far because they know we will get over it and show up long enough to do their dirty laundry and dishes and pay for the groceries!

I am furious at these stupid women. It is like when Bush got elected in 2004 - I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT. I was so depressed I could hardly function at full-speed for 3 or 4 days after the election. I was more upset that over half of the American people could be so stupid.

I could not understand this huge movement when George W began running that he was so wonderful and their was going to be wonderful change and unity in our government. Those BLUE W stickers were driving all around America and I was getting sick everytime I say another one. I did not see any substance to the man or his plan for our country other than a hidden agenda that we all know all to well now every time we fill up the pump or watch the weekly death count in Iraq.

Well, strip away all of the "trying to make it politically-right" actions now that Obama has and is adapting - wearing the flag lapel pin, talking about his partiorism, and so many other things that WERE ABSENT in the beginning.

RECOGNIZE THIS - WOMEN . . . Chicago politics is tough and nasty. Obama did not get where he is today without being a manipulative and artful POLITICIAN.

I don't know what the hidden agenda is - but, I know that it is not lifting women up.

And, I am NOT just about the women or women issues. But, I know that a female president is going to be much more concerned and hard-working for ALL issues and people than a man because that is what we women do. We care, we multi-task, and we wear a million different hats to make the world go around.

HILLARY is winning the majority of the vote BIG and everyone is making her look like she is "crazy" and "pathetic" to stay in the race.

I thought it looked ridiculous last night that Obama was making this victory speech in Iowa all the while the numbers at the bottom of the screen were the results from KY where Clinton beat him 35 POINTS!

But, yet - it was like "The Emperor with no clothes". This is just unbelievable.

Truly the biggest discrimination left in the world - the discrimination against women. And, the women that support this discrimination such as the female governors from KS and MO that endorsed Obama (hoping to get a VP spot - let's get real here) they are the worse!

I will not support NARAL. I will NOT support OBAMA in NOV. THE DNC and other organizations have an agenda that will not protect the rights of women and children across America. Hillary is the only candidate that has proven that committment.

YOU MESSED UP! YOU BACKED A CANDIDATE WITH NO RECORD OF FIGHTING FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

YOUR ORGANIZATION NEEDS NEW LEADERSHIP.

I would like to address a few things I've read in recent posts.

The first is that Obama's "grasp on issues is pathetic." This is a complete and total falshood. If you do your research, listen to what he has said in round table discussion, lengthy interviews and press conferences, read his books, and listen to him speak (ex. his speech on race, which he wrote himself) his grasp on issues is extremely formidable and deep. He is not only highly intelligent but he truly understands the complexity of the issues that face our country and the world--from Iraq, to the economy, to Middle East relations, to domestic issues. An example of this is his position on lifting the gas tax. Countless economists say he is right on the money when he says lifting the gas tax will do more harm than good in the long run and will not make much of a difference in the lives of Americans.

Another fallacy is that Senator Clinton is winning the popular vote. In order for her to really be ahead in the popular vote one not only has to count MI and FL but also has to discount al the caucus states. Why is it that Senator Clinton wants to make sure that MI and FL are counted but will dismiss the voters of caucus states?

A third thing that I've seen that is wrong is that Obama has only started recently speaking about his patriotism. This is absolutely, 100%, false. Not only has he written extensively about the love he has for America in his books but it is something he has always spoken publicly about--always. Is the foundation of his campaign.

Another, Obama does not support a woman's right to chose because of his "present" votes. Planned Parenthood has already stated that they asked him to vote this way, it is a voting tactic in the Ill. Senate. Obama has a 100% rating from choice groups.

I would like to ask any Clinton supporters to answer these questions for me.

1. How can you justify your support of her after she not only voted for the invasion of Iraq (after not reading the security report) but, for years, did not speak against the war? Many Senators did vote against the war, I think the number who voted against the invasion is 21--so it isn't as if she would have been alone. How many women and children have been slaughtered because of our illegal invasion of Iraq? How will we justify to our children spending billions and billions of dollars when there is so much need in our own country, and so much good that we could do around the world with that money?

2. How can you justify voting for someone who voted for the bankruptcy bill that favored big money and banks, and put everyday, working people at risk. Then, after the bill failed, she said she had actually been hoping all along that it would fail.

3. How can you justify voting for someone who voted against banning cluster bombs in civilian areas (Obama, in contrast, voted for the ban)? How many women and children die because of our use of cluster bombs in civilian areas? How can someone who claims to speak for women and children vote to use cluster bombs against them?

I am not trying to be combative. These are some of the reasons I could not support her candidacy and I am interested in the opinions of those who have been able to put these issues aside and support her regardless.

Many thanks,
Heather

OBAMA was not in a position to hear the lies that was presented to other Senators that voted for the war in Iraq.

Obama in his own state dodged important votes preparing to set himself up for running for president.

WHY WOULD YOU NOT want to count the votes of MI & FL. She did not ask to have the votes count as they stand until Obama refused her and others open and honest approach to solve the problem by letting MI & FL vote over. Are you nuts??? This is AMERICA? Haven't we been down this road before and that is what put another inexperienced and bad president into the White House?

Heather - you are going to steal the nomination - so just quit ripping the scab off of us EVERY SINGLE DAY. You are just getting old already and I for one have read and read and read your posts and never answered them. I just could not keep quiet any longer. ESPECIALLY when you lied and said you were not trying to be combative. THEN WHAT WAS THE REASON for pouring alcohol on our wound if not to be combative? It sure wasn't to see our point of view so you may possibly join our new movement of "never screw us again"!

lol. heather. go back to democratic underground. which is one of the most sexist nastiest sites i've ever seen btw. Your questions have been talked about at length on every political web board there is. We do not want your 1/2 term senator sweetie.

Jess,

Many of US WOMEN do support Barrack Obama because Hillary Clinton has proven to us that she has lost her democratic values. She is much less trustworthy than any other candidate running. Her lies about Bosnia, her support of the Iraq war, her cries of foul as she plays dirty, her Republican-style of politics is scary. I hate her...I cringe to hear her voice!!!! But I am not stupid enough to say I would vote for John McCain or stay home. I am a dedicated democrat and activist.

Don't assume a Barrack supporter "just doesn't see the truth"...I do not rely on my information when forming a decision based on a quick glance nor make them lightly. I look at their voting records, have read all the candidates sites, read multiple news journals and watch political news...and, I am sorry, a woman simply cannot claim all the experience of her husband. It doesn't for me in my job and it doesn't work for Hillary.

One last thing Jess...ensure your "WE" means Hillary Supporters and NOT ALL WOMEN. Hillary does not have all the woman vote nationwide...just a majority in some states, in certain demographics.

YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN. I am sick of all these bloggers acting like they do.

The WE threat is from the extremists...a fraction of those people voting for Clinton. All Clinton supporters I know (we voted a few months ago) are now behind Barrack since he will be the democratic nominee in the next couple of weeks.

To "Heather Comments" and Jess,

For the record, I've never seen the website "democratic underground," never even heard of it. So I can't address your view of it.

As far as MI and FL go, I do think that an agreement has to be reached because , in a democracy, we cannot disenfranchise millions of people.

As far as Obama not being in a position to hear the lies the Senate was being given about the invasion--as I stated many Senators did vote against the war. Many, many citizens, including myself, were against the invasion of Iraq. I am just asking how Clinton's supporters can justify supporting her after her vote, and the other votes I mentioned. I have yet to get an answer to this question so I'll keep asking it and the other questions I posed.

I am not being combative, please do not accuse me of lying when I say this because I am being sincere. I have been respectful, have not gotten personal or patronizing, and have not attacked anyone. I believe this is in stark contrast to the way some Clinton supporters have responded to me on this site.

I don't blog a lot, don't have time for it with 3 kids, but I've dedicated some time to my postings on this site because I thought this might be a site where I could get some answers to my own questions regarding Sentator Clinton's voting record. I thought, maybe, that fellow feminists could be honest with me, and respectful towards me.

I am not "ripping the scab" off of anyone. I never said that I want to see your point of view in order to join the "new movement," I believe my support of Obama is well-placed. And I was sincerely hoping for some honest answers to my questions. I was hoping to start a dialogue so I could understand where people were coming from, I'm sorry that you question my motives and are unable to provide these answers.

Obama has not stolen the election, he has won it. I'm sorry if you feel that I am pouring salt on your wounds by posting on this site but I believe that I also have a right to post here.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to help my 5-year old daughter with her homework so that, one day, she can appreciate all the barriers that have been broken in this election and keep moving it forward.

you say you came her to find info on sen. clinton's record, go to the first blog entry of the endorsement and sift through the 3,600 comments, there is some info on her record of women's issues there.

Jess, I didn't come here to find out about her record because I am familiar with that. I looked closely at both her record and Obama's record before deciding who I would support. Plus, as a feminist, I have always paid close attention to Senator Clinton. I heard her speak at the March for Women's Lives in DC a few years back and was inspired and moved by her, she was tremendous.

What I am interested in finding out is how her supporters, as feminists, can see past many of the things that she has done that harm women and children (like voting against the cluster bomb ban or for the war).

Again, I am not trying to be combative. But I think we have got to realize that a major rift in the feminist movement does us no good, and I am trying to start a dialogue about how feminists come to the decisions that they do about the candidates that they support in the hopes that we can find some empathy for each other. If supporters on both sides can have honest and respectful discussions then, at the very least, we can agree to disagree but not hate-- and that we can, in turn, focus on our commonalitites.

So I am sincerely intrested in hearing from her supporters about the questions that I listed above, in the hopes that I can try to understand their thinking and decision making process.

Thanks for your response,
Heather

try hillaryclintonforum.net to find out thoughts on controversial bills voted on by both candidates. Unfortunately most places are pretty biased at this point, and they also might be slightly fuming right now, maybe try a search there to find views before this boiling point.

but i definitely recommend not going to democratic underground even though they discuss bills by both, they will answer "because shes a monster" "she's a whore" "i f-----g hate her", etc. And i cannot think of any site that is not biased in one way or another. and i for one cannot get into a bill by bill play because i've done it with people 1,000x, it just becomes a back and forth. And many people can dislike a number of votes by each person, no one is going to have the exact voting record you want, we're not going to love every single stance of each candidate. But many hillary supporters find her far and away better than Obama for many reasons. Not just 3 or 4 yay or nays.

I have a solution for MI and FL. Just split the delegates 50-50. The state parties of those states should be thankful if they even get their delegates seated. After all, they knew the rules, they knew the consequences, and they broke them anyway. Obama and Edwards respected the rules and didn't campaign in either state or have their name on the ballot, but Clinton didn't care. Her wins in those states are illegitimate at best because only candidates like Chris Dodd were on the ballot with her. Oh, that's fair!

Her claim that she leads Obama in the popular vote is false, because she's counting Florida and Michigan WHICH ARE ILLEGITIMATE WINS. In fact, if we have to stretch the rules because she must have her way, why isn't she counting Iowa, Maine, Nevada, and Washington, where Obama won 3 out of 4? Because, like Rove, she likes using "the math" rather than "your math".

Jess, thanks for your response to my question. I understand how you can be tired of the back and forth of all of this. I think my problem is that I haven't done a ton of that (we live in Ireland so we are not exposed to the everyday election overdrive like those who live in the States--so I'm probably not quite as burned out as you!).

But I do appreciate your response and recommendation.

Best,
Heather

If you haven't already done this, go read (on this blog) 'Bush Appointee to HHS Family Planning....' posted 5/22 By: Molly-

Check out who signed the letter of protest concerning Ms. Orr's appointment.....Hillary Clinton's signature is the first of 19 senator's signatures.......but, ......one signature is glaringly missing........you guessed it.....that signature would belong to the presidential candidate that NARAL endorsed!!!!!!!!!

INCREDIBLE!!!!!

freeda peeples, of course HRC's signature is the first one, the letter came from her office. There were only a handful of signatures on there, a very, very far cry from all the pro-choice Senators. My suspicion is that HRC's office wrote the letter and an intern was taksed with getting the signatures of the Dems he or she could find around.

If you assume that anyone who didn't sign the letter is soft on women's issues then you are assuming that about a lot of Senators (including female Senators who, like Clinton and Obama have flawless track records on women's issues.)

This is a non-issue and people are making mountains out of mole hills--big time.

"I have a solution for MI and FL. Just split the delegates 50-50. The state parties of those states should be thankful if they even get their delegates seated. After all, they knew the rules, they knew the consequences, and they broke them anyway. Obama and Edwards respected the rules and didn't campaign in either state or have their name on the ballot, but Clinton didn't care. Her wins in those states are illegitimate at best because only candidates like Chris Dodd were on the ballot with her. Oh, that's fair!"

I agree. This would allow them to be part of the convention and still punish them for breaking the rules. It's the only fair solution.

And to those who say this is a still a race - please come to grips with reality.

heather,

Exactly. who's office did it come from? This is who is taking initiative on the right to choose. Sen. Clinton. It is not that obama is not pro-choice, of course he is. But look who is the person who is on top of the issue. Sen. Clinton. They did not need to choose before the end of the primary. And if choosing a candidate before the end of the primary, it's a slap in the face if you don't choose the one who is clearly the front runner on issues naral is supposed to be about. Barack is a pro-choice senator. there are many pro-choice senator, but HRC has been an advocate of women and families her whole life. So they choose B. Obama 3 weeks before the end of a year long contest. It's ridiculous.

Jess,

I agree with you that she is at the forefront of this issue, she always has been and there isn't any disputing that. But I don't think that people should point to this letter and say "see! his name isn't on it so he doesn't really care about us!" because that is just crazy. Lots of Senators names are not on it. This was likely a "whoever is in the building" kind of thing.

I do think, after having seen the anger it has raised, that NARAL should probably have waited until after the nominating process was done to endorse, certainly 3 weeks wouldn't have made a big difference.

I saw this as a general election endorsement and a statement that we need to focus on McCain. In hindsight, it would have been best to wait.

But, in the long run, that isn't the main issue here, the main issue, at least as far as the election goes, is that we've got a misogynist who wants to set back the clock to defeat. I think that is what our focus should be on right now.

That doesn't mean that we can't take on the sexism that we have seen in this campaign, we can and we should, and we should do it together (just like we should defeat McCain together). Instead of fighting each other we should be fighting the actual sexists--voting for McCain and against someone who has a strong record on choice and women's issues does not further that.

I have READ AND READ AND READ for days now and NOT said a word!

I HAVE HAD ENOUGH from the women that have said hurtful things about Hillary Clinton and the women that support her.

I am watching Iron Jawed Angels right now. I suggest that EVERY WOMAN do the same! It is so funny how much history REALLY does repeat itself and how women continue to be our own worse enemies!

It does not matter if this is Elizabeth Dole running or Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Hillary Clinton. GET A CLUE all of your women that claim to be feminists!

And, give the woman (Hillary Clinton) some credit for fighting the fight for ALL OF US. She is human. She gets tired. She makes mistakes. She is not perfect.

But, all of YOU - that sit on the sidelines and do nothing more than BITCH - SHAME ON YOU!

And, for the men on here that have nothing better to do than make their ugly remarks. You do NOT have a dog in this fight!

The wisest writing and the most heart-felt writing that I have seen on here was written by an elderly lady that is with a women's group that she was writing on behalf of. Her name is Gladys Perkins and I have copied her writing below.

I read that writing to my own mother this morning that does not use the internet either. We cried together.

PLEASE read the following and give respect to our elderly women that have been so shook up by all of this because they have worked so hard, prayed so faithfully, and put so much on the line from a very early age so that we women could have more rights.

I fully expect to see something written by HEATHER and a couple of others including LEO that seem to not have anything better to do. But, I ask the rest of you that can be objective to PLEASE have an open-heart and sharpen your mind as to what this all REALLY means for our country – NOT JUST FOR WOMEN – to continue to have men run every aspect of our lives. And, when politics is ruled by men – then everything is ruled by men. I love my father and my brothers and my grandsons and want EQUAL rights for them as much as I do for all races and everyone. This is what strong women in office will be sure to do.

STAND STRONG – WOMEN or at the very least – quit being our own worst enemy!

I am copying what Gladys Perkins wrote yesterday. Gladys – I love you and your group and I for one want to thank all of you for your heart and soul!

By Gladys Perkins on May 23, 2008 9:56 AM
Dear Ms. Keenan & NARAL,

There are a lot of angry people here. I am here on behalf a group of mature women who can't use a computer. It's unfathomable to us how an organization based on a woman's right to choose could deal such a selfish blow to a woman who has spent her entire life standing up for women.
We cannot understand this - nor will we ever.
I was going to go into detail and lay out our arguments, but it's perfectly clear that your decision was made unilaterally and no defense of it will be forthcoming.

What defense is there?

We find your silence indicative of someone who knows they did the wrong thing and chose to put personal notoriety ahead of the greater good -- someone who doesn't have the moral fiber to stand up and admit to it. What one doesn't say is more telling than what one does.

In the end it is always a woman who has to take down a woman. Men can't do it alone. Senator Clinton has been impervious to men's childish envy and discontent. You haven't destroyed Senator Clinton, externally, but on the inside this has to have hurt her in ways we cannot articulate. Twenty years of the media tormenting her and you did more than any misogynist could do: You her hurt her feminine soul. We cry over this every meeting. We sit and cry and wonder what our struggles were for and for whom.

Our group is fifty-five women strong--not all able-bodied or clear of mind--but none of us will be voting for Mr Obama. We will be writing Senator Clinton in on the ballot. With pride.
Senator Clinton is the champion of and for our generation. Our hopes and dreams rest in her heart. She has done what we did not have the strength or fortitude to do. She has outlasted many men and has gotten further than any woman has before only to be disregarded and cast aside by a supposed woman's advocacy committee.

Senator Clinton is an amazing woman whose worth will not be acknowledged until we are long gone. We want her to know that we love her and appreciate her years of struggle. She represents how one woman can change the world and you represent how one woman can destroy it.

Those of you who write those despicable comments about a woman whose shoes you have not walked in and could never fill need to look at Miss Chelsea Clinton. Watch how she comports herself and you will know what a loving woman and mother Senator Clinton is. Watch the love that passes between them when they look at each other and imagine how Chelsea views your sacred betrayal of her mother. Ask yourself how Chelsea will explain this to Senator Clinton's granddaughter.
You have undone a lifetime of struggle with a selfish decision that no woman of class would have ever thought of - let alone carried out.

You are not of the younger generation, Ms Keenan, which makes your betrayal even more loathsome.

In closing, we would like an apology and we would like to hear the answers to the posed questions in this area. Thank you for listening and for providing a forum in which to be heard.

May God have Mercy on your soul.
Gladys Perkins for The Women of Wisdom

You say you saw Hillary spoke (not Obama) and, she was tremendous.

She always is and always has been and always will be. And, she more than any candidate running for president in America understands the very important position and posturing she would have to work on women's issues around the world. After all, she has proven in all that she has already done AROUND the WORLD for women - that this is a major issue of vital interest to her.

Are McCain or Obama able to say the same or recall on ANY action they have taken that points to this fact as Hillary Clinton so bravely has already done?

Heather, actions do speak louder than words. Obama had to be TOLD after all the comments on this blog - to give more attention on his website to women's issues. How can this be of comfort to any feminist?

We have already had a president that was charming and convincing but, had no proven track record for us to review. And, it has us in a mess.

And, now - we can't take care of anyone else until we take care of ourselves and get strong in America. The sooner we get someone to work that has the experience with the right issues of interest under HER belt - the sooner we are able to reach out to help others around the world.

But, Heather . . . right now - we are hurting in America! Hurting BAD. Therefore, this election is VERY VERY important to not just you and your worldly interest - but, to our own lives with our own spouses and children and elderly parents.

Again, I promised myself I wouldn't do this, that I wouldn't post, but I amm o stubborn for my own good. I think it is short-sighted of posters on this board to assume that, because we live overseas, we don't care about America.

We are a State Dept. family so, yes, we have been given the gift of seeing parts of the world that many Americans do not get to see. But we are still American. Our children are American, my husband proudly serves his country, my dad and step-mom also proudly serve their country (they are in Iraq with the State Dept.) so please don't think that, because we don't live in America right now that we don't care about our country. Believe me, as many gifts as we get from moving all over the world, if we didn't love our country it wouldn't be worth it.

Failure to vote on issues does not equal supporting choice. The NARAL "leadership" needs to get off the drugs.

On Obama's present votes:

http://ppaurora.blogspot.com/2008/02/setting-record-straight-illinois-nows.html

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712140004

Go ahead and compare Obama and McCain. However, I am a Clinton supporter and we all know how she compares to both of them.

Hillary is brought and paid for by special interest. She has taken more and more money from them then any other Senator.
I always thought I would vote for a women who ran for President but I was wrong. Everyone says she has experience and that is what we need. I disagree, If I can call what she has is experience and I cant. Experience is good If it helps the "America people" but for everyone who has been in the white house sense Gerald Ford it has not.
Obama taught Constitutional law in Chicago, he fights for peoples rights, and I'm a white women, from Louisiana, and I'm voting for Obama.

Well anyway, this is what I found. http://thomas.loc.gov/ Do you know that in 8 years Barack Obama is responsible for over 350 bills getting signed into law.

233 regarding healthcare reform
125 on poverty and public assistance
112 crime fighting bills
97 economic bills
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills
21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control
6 veterans affairs and many others

im a vet and homless multi disbaled female
i see obama doing real help.
obama -bond act for instance.
compare thier senator pages for current work.

i see clinotn supporting the same divide and conquer lobbyists that created such a divide in the disabeld community and elswhere
gor resources get appeased others get left in the road. with no voice.

i wish hillarys folks learned more about the DLC.
AND THAT GROUP OF GOP PRETEND TO BE DEMS ..

I TOO hoped fro a woman in teh white house
but Obama is fro civil and human rights fro all THE CLINtONs ARE FOR LOBBYISTS whcih appeases the more powerflu and shuts off and up the rest with no voices.

if your not one of the chosen... DONT CHOOSE CLINTON

be careful TO KNOW what you ask for !

I REPEAT

if your not in one of THE CLINTON WELL LOBBIED groups Fed the pork.
you are voting against yourself.!!!!!!!!!!!

After rethinking NARAL's shift in its commitment to abortion rights and I realized I have been too attached to this issue.

I believe the majority of younger women don't really care much about this issue any more, per their Obama choice, like you.

So why should I, who am too old to need an abortion, be wringing my hands?

This is all so freeing. I don't have to worry about that pesky Supreme Court issue anymore. I guess I owe NARAL an apology, as they still are a beacon to liberation.

I am now free to vote for McCain.